Westvlteren uses both white sugar and caramelized sugar in the 8 and 12.

I don’t know how much less fermentable carmelized would be. Perhaps not any different. The key is the unrefined flavors.

I apologize, but I don’t know the answer to the questions about Randy’s recipe. You could visit his site: http://radicalbrewing.com/

This is just my opinion – I don’t get a kickback or anything ;>) – but the D2 you can buy works very well and is a fair price. Just not as much fun.

Second, how much less fermentable is caramel at different degrees of carmelization?

Lastly, what is the purpose of the ammonium carbonate or DAP that Randy Mosher mentions in his recipe?

Thanks,
Colin

Yes, you should get the same flavor – although you aren’t looking for much in the way of sugar flavor in pale beers – whether you go to the effort of making invert sugar before the boil or add sucrose to the boil.

On pages 168 and 169 of the book you will find a recipe for making your own caramel syrup.

Sorry for the long post, but it all ties together in my head. Thanx!!
David

For a dark syrup the monastery breweries now use something similar to D2 rather than making their own. Since they don’t all order from the same place I can’t say for sure whether the source is cane or beet. That doesn’t really matter in white sugar, since you get refined sucrose. It might make a small difference in the syrup, because part of the point is the “impurities” and these will vary. But I wouldn’t sweat it.

I think you’ll find that D2 and the recipe Randy Mosher provided for making your own work equally well and both are true to the monastic spirit.

The key when using your own syrup or D2 is to consider what percentage of fermentables it contributes and the color. You get your final color with the addition of dark malts (but think about the flavors they add) and make sure sugar contributes ~15% (very roughly – some go higher and make great beers) by adding plain sucrose (refine sugar).

Does that simplify or confuse things?

Your Brew Like a Monk is virtually my brewers bible when it comes to brewing Belgian and Belgian inspired beers. No other even comes close. I also just ordered Brewing with Wheat and can’t wait to read it over and over again.

So I’ve tried my best to find this information on the boards before I bothered you, but there still seems to be some gaps in my knowledge of exactly what the monks use for their sugar additions in their dark beers (dubbels and most importantly dark strong ales).

I’m trying to make my own that resembles the D2 Syrup as closely as possible (that stuff is awesome, but a little too pricey).

1. Is cane an accurate substitute for beet sugar? Do the monks actually use beet sugar?

2. Is the syrup the entire volume of water and sugar, or the substance left over after crystallization?

3. Is an acid used by the monks for the inversion process, or is it straight heat?

I imagine I’m making this more difficult than it needs to be, but in brewing with the spirit of the monks, I’d like to refine my process to be the most efficient and cost effective as possible. (Sorry for the long post!).

Regards,

Brody Nasse

There is no point in using the clear rocks sold in some homebrew stores as candi sugar. Just plain sucrose will do the job. In that case you want include sugar to boost gravity yet end up with a “digestible” beer (well attenuated, like in the high 80s apparent).

Unrefined sugar will add rummy, dark fruit notes in dark strong beers (such dubbels or Rochefort and Westvleteren beers). You can make your own caramelized sugar or use the products from Dark Candi Inc. (which come from Belgium).

So I guess I’m voting with your friend. And at the same time pointing out that Caracole’s Nostradamus is made with sucrose and then four different dark malts.

They are used in the kettle. I’m not so sure if wheat starch adds anything to the Rochefort 10 mouthfeel, and neither is Gumar Santos (the engineer who oversees the brewery).